EXCLUSIVE VIDEO | The psychological profile of brothers Andrew and Tristan Tate, made by forensic psychologist Tudorel Butoi: “They exploit a suffering, show off their power over people, have a sick ego and behave eccentrically. They can’t rehabilitate, they are psychopathic structures”

Britons Andrew and Tristan Tate – arrested in Romania for human trafficking – are „little quinces to put in the window” compared to other criminals, their crimes are in the category of underworld criminality, says criminal psychologist Tudorel Butoi, in an exclusive interview for Gândul.

The Tate brothers exploited an affliction and, while they were free, put on a show with their “tricks and treats”, but like any criminal, confronted to the evidence, in cross examination, they would sweat and tell everything.

” All those we had in the interrogation – given that the Tate brothers are «quinces to put in the window», we had big criminals, who dealt with pimping, prostitution – and, in general, all criminals who make a parade of manhandling outside, in evidence-based interrogations, sweat, stink, become cornered animals”, said Tudorel Butoi.

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The forensic psychologist said investigators will need to clarify why the Tate brothers have been able to exploit for so long the plight of young women, who, tricked into a love affair, ended up video chatting through physical violence, intimidation, and constant surveillance.

”To do erotic sexual exhibitionism, you must have a dysfunctionality, which matches the dysfunctionality of the viewer, who also have their sufferings in the area of personality. What satisfaction can you get from watching those girls show off?”, added Tudorel Butoi.

The criminal psychologist argues that the Tate brothers are far from being associated with professional criminals, as their deeds fall into the category of ordinary underworld crime.

The forensic psychologist stressed that now, the case of the Tate brothers should direct the eyes of the investigators dealing with organized crime to the outskirts of Bucharest, where such criminals who traffic in people would have moved their illegal activities, hidden behind some fences.

“These establishments no longer exist in downtown Bucharest. The area where these undergrounds, who pay no taxes, evade, and do what the press gave us to watch with the Tate brothers and others, are now in the outskirts of the big cities, where the potentates have had the opportunity to build their 2.20-meter fence, their basements, their establishments, their bedrooms and their saloons and where they gather according to their protocols, their „recipe”.

” Who gives the approvals, how do they give the approvals, what checks are made, what are the requirements and what fees do they pay? How can you have mountains of cars? Do you realize what taxes they should pay?”, added Tudorel Butoi.

The forensic psychologist does not believe that the Tate brothers can be rehabilitated.

“An extraordinary naivety is in these people’s heads”

Professor, thank you for agreeing to discuss the scandal that is the order of the day and that has inflamed all the national and international press. The subject is the Tate brothers. Surely, you’ve noticed what’s been going on lately, you’ve also noticed them from pictures, from information. Professor, what kind of characters are these Tate brothers, personality-wise?

Beyond this exciting, somewhat romantic component, which also stirs some people’s humor, curiosity, and makes us all relate to this event, the Tate Brothers and so on, I think we must take note of the sad component of this event – a sad component, if I may say pathetic. To have an establishment where teenagers, youngsters, women, and men hang around just to feed sexual hedonism – so here, you can’t fool Professor Butoi and take him for a ride. Among the needs of the human being – the biological need for food, the physiological need for sex, the need for shelter, safety and so on, sexual hedonism has been proven by researchers, psychologists, psychiatrists and so on to be the fundamental component. But in Maslow’s pyramid, at the base there are needs – as Maslow calls them – safety needs, material needs, shelter needs, physiological needs, sexual needs and so on. The term need is one, so needs you have in an existential algorithm, but we, today, are dealing with sexual comfort. Thus, there are massive categories, entire platoons – both abroad and here – who pursue, pursue sexual comfort.

Maybe also eccentricities, which lead to abuse, which take the form of abuse?

Perfectly true. Eccentricities, of a parallel nature, in matters of this kind that they imagine and sell very nicely, to whom? Here is the whole story – to thirsty individuals, eager to enter these combinations, which are based on the satisfaction of sexual comfort. When we talk about sexual comfort, we’re talking about sex as a commodity, this time. From those relationships, the shame has disappeared, the respect has disappeared – which is very sad, because I see it in my cabinet here, in my office – the erotic attraction has disappeared, the active component has disappeared, that warm love that unites couples. There is only one goal in everything: money. These brothers, eccentric characters since their teens, from my information, are fighters, kickboxers, they are shooters, they have films in which they expose their adventures, their bodies. They’re part of this performance squad, showing off their brands. In the heads of these people there is an extraordinary naivety and, again, listen to me, people: both they, these branders, the tattooed ones, and the girls who in cohorts and accompany them – all of you, you are just expendable materials. On the note that a manager draws for his company, appear the consumables – mops, brooms, brushes, buckets and you will end up just as the people that come to my office and to other psychologists. You will end up driven by anxiety, depression, suicide attempts, alcoholism, drugs, and gambling – that’s just the way it is.

“The fault lies with education, first of all, education that we have in the family sector…”

Professor, what exactly makes the victims end up in the entourage of these characters? Because here’s the thing, the Tate brothers, we know very well that they created for themselves this method of hooking – the „loverboy” method, taking advantage of the social networks and the naivety, so to say, of some persons who, let’s say it, have an intellectual, emotional immaturity, or what happens to these girls?

You said it very well. Our questions focus on what home upbringing these girls received, what kind of education they got behind the block, where do they stand with their school education and school performance, and what we see are only holes in this cheese, which forms a personality. And then, what resistance can they put up? Some statements appeared, however, in the press of some girls – and not a few – who have been in the situation of being picked up, had discussions with these men, and invitations to come, to go for a drive, to go to the mountains, to be taken to Amsterdam, all of this has been put at stake. But they didn’t go all the way because, voila, there are however girls who rejected them.

Then is it about weak women or women who are looking to get rich quick or some who even dream that hey are those handsome, studly boys who can satisfy all of life’s pleasures?

All these things you mentioned are part of an immature personality – you have no backbone, you are not able to discern. That is why, until the age of 16, the law presumes the absence of consent and the obligation of the parents to take care of the education, health, and care of these minors. But we’re talking about young women who are prolonging this naive minority and there are women in their 30s, 30-something, hoping to hit the jackpot and find the ideal man. And. on top of this all, there are the false models.

And whose fault is it, Professor?

The fault lies with education, first of all, the education that we receive in the family section, in early childhood, the education that we get, also in the family section, in these primary schools, up to the fourth, fifth grade and then, massively, at school, as you spend your time at school for the most, with your socializing collectives, with teachers, with headmasters and so on.

Now they don’t really socialize anymore, except on social networks – hilarious, because we are talking about a generation that is always with their tablet or phone open, on social networks – Instagram, TikTok. Instagram is full of video chats.

You are absolutely right. But it’s not technical progress that’s to blame, the tablet doesn’t inoculate them, they run after the tablet. In other words, in this area of socialization, digitalization and so on, there is a huge field of offers. This huge field of offers is also raging in the Western states, as we call them, because we had networks – and I go back again to this force that sexual hedonism has. Sexual hedonism is not about your self-discipline, or your licenses, or your material status, or anything – it’s about the need to sexualize, the need to have intimate sexual relations, which has been consumed in the West at very high levels. There were legal entities, who in Epstein’s network attended and frequented these clubs. Epstein committed suicide because he had to answer the interrogators in the investigation – he had to speak out and say who the frequent attendees were and from what social strata, which is what the Tate brothers will have to do as well. They will have to answer, in the interviews who was coming, who was protecting them, from what social strata those people are. If I am to imagine, just for a moment my DIICOT students and the officers I trained in the colleges, then they are going to have a very hard time getting away with it, especially since we have complaints here. In this case, right now, at this moment, we have complaints.

“He becomes a cornered animal, because evidence is piling up”

We have civil parties, girls who have been abused, coerced. That is why we also have deprivation of liberty among the offences, and we also have a rape.

It’s a complicated matter – and because people are listening to us and there are victims – they should know that, in parallel to the criminal proceedings, civil parties will be formed, and they will ask them for money for the compensation of mental suffering. Many of these girls are just waking up. They thought they were in the paradise of the Tate brothers – no, you are expendable, you are in the most miserable situation one can imagine. That’s why I think the investigation will continue with them in pre-trial detention – when, again, we riot – they will no longer be able to influence witnesses, pay witnesses, influence I don’t know what lawyer and pay for this kind of artificial defenses. They are very rich, but with money there is nothing you can do when you are in remand, in custody, you are in police custody. I give you food, I take care of you, I am responsible for your security, but you can no longer move from the shop, from down there, from the Capital.

However, looking at them in your capacity of forensic psychologist, the most reputable that we know and that I know, namely you, Professor, I would like to ask you: they, as a psychological profile, what kind of characters are they, could they crack in a cross-examination, a simple questioning?

Again, you demonstrate knowledge. I don’t want to be so harsh, but all these people that I’ve had on interrogation, cos’  the Tate brothers are just “quinces to put, like that, in the window” – we’ve had big criminals who have dealt with pimping, prostitution and so on – and generally, the criminals who out there do things like that, show off their power and so on, in the evidentiary examinations, and in the cross-examination you were talking about, sweat, stink and that’s it. Hence, he becomes a cornered animal, because evidence is piling up and huge: let so and so in – say what you know, let so and so in – say what you saw, let so and so in – bring the evidence here, bring the envelopes, bring the drug expertise and so on – and in the meanwhile they sweat, stink and stink.

“Do you realize what taxes these people should be obliged to pay?”

Do you think there are also drugs involved in this case?

I dare say drugs are the only thing missing, because otherwise we have it all. How can you make so much money for cars, for all these expenses, for all this, if there is no pump in the back? The most powerful pump today is drug trafficking.

Is this economic issue, the economic issue of videochat, regulated? Who issues the approvals, how do they give the approvals, what controls are carried out, what are the requirements to be met and what taxes do these people pay?

Well, how can you have piles of cars – I get it, amazing – can you imagine the taxes these guys should have to pay? Because they exploit a suffering – on the one hand, that of the chat-is, because to perform acts of erotic, sexual exhibitionism you must have some sort of dysfunctionality, which matches the dysfunctionality of the viewer, who also has their own sufferings in this area of personality. What satisfaction can you get from watching those girls, showing off, doing things to themselves, rubbing themselves and so on? Don’t you realize there’s something wrong with you? They are weak and frustrated people.

Now it’s very interesting for the DIICOT to listen to us, but I think they know what we’re talking about: these establishments no longer exist in the center of Bucharest. The center of Bucharest is over, is sold out. The area where these members of the underworld  move, these people who don’t even pay taxes, evade and do what the press has given us to watch with the Tate brothers and others of the same kind, all of this is now located in the peripheral areas of the big cities, where the potentates have had the possibility to raise their 2-20 fence, make their basements, their establishments, bedrooms and parlors and where they gather according to their protocols.

Do you remember that we had a Dutchman who killed and raped a 12-year-old girl, around here in Romania? The man was a sex tourist – we are still on the surface of this case. He was repeatedly found in the database, by the police. But what was the surprise? He died. When he went to the Netherlands and they set him free – again, an clumsy move.

For acts of obvious probity and social danger, I suggest the following recipe: preventive arrest. You have the man at your disposal, you never know when you have to conduct a search, a search of persons, a hearing… And then you find out that he is gone, whether he was under judicial control, in home arrest, whatever – these are all nonsense.

I go back to the Dutchman: he is released, and the forensics authorities inform us that he committed suicide, and they also send us some dummy pictures with some shots, that is to say that this guy might have gone under fire. Well, aren’t we making the connection – this is the third millennium, and our minds are still working well – that he should have been questioned by our law enforcement agencies? Who is hosting you in this country, who are you friends in this country, where do you get these minor girls in this country and so on, to clean a bit round here, to perform surgery in this case.

And I repeat, I know what our officers from the DIICOT and the Prosecutor’s Office have to do – do special work, intensify it, place their people who are sensors and enter the border areas of big cities.

“Professional criminals don’t end up in jail”

Professor – speaking of cops, of forensics, of prosecutors – in this case, we have an arrestee, who was a lieutenant, one of the Tate brothers’ top people, a former police officer, who graduated from  the Police Academy, who for a very short time was at the Police Station 7, after which, she quit and, according to her own social media accounts, said she felt immature and that she, in fact, was a princess.

As if she were the only one in his structure. No, we’ve had enough female characters who are weak as character and temperament and so on, who have not resisted the most varied temptations they had before them- neither money nor that – and they also earn poorly.

It’s so easy to make money in video chat that these video chat activities have become a magnet for girls who don’t want to work, don’t want to contribute, don’t want to go to college?

They will tell us during the investigation. During the prosecution, they will tell us what made her do these things. I don’t fit into her structure, but every individual does things according to some motives. After all, there is something about this silence and the right to remain silent. This is something we discuss here in the cabin, and we also discuss it in the street or over a beer – when you get down to the Draga Linii, you feel like talking, because you must cling to the attenuating circumstances in admitting the facts, regretting the facts, and contributing to the recovery of the damage, in order to get yourself too into the minimum zone.

Professor, if we are to categorize the Tate brothers, are they ordinary criminals or are they professional criminals?

We can’t even remotely associate the Tate brothers with professional criminals – only those who haven’t seen professional criminals can think like that. Professional criminals do not go to jail. For me, this case is extremely amusing.

Why do they do this?

It’s their ego, it’s a sick ego, selfishness, self-centeredness. You see them behaving eccentrically, have this type of thick touches, bragging about themselves. In a report I saw, one of them tells an operator like you, who was filming in the area: Be careful, if you shoot a frame with me, I’ll come over you, I’ll get you, break your camera and pay it. You’ve heard of destruction in your life, but there is another offence that is used when someone is doing work in the interest of the service and you interfere with them and obstruct them and so on – well, this is outrage. How can you break in, who are you to go over that man, who is doing his job, and break his equipment? Rogues they are, in the sense of ordinary underworld criminality. It’s not just them, there are plenty like that.

“We expect the results to be clear, concrete and proven”

And yet, why haven’t they been stopped yet, Professor?

That, again, let the prosecution tell us and, again, it’s good that they stay at Draga Nenii, there, in preventive detention, so they can tell us. You see, when the Americans talk about things we learned in school, they talk about white collar crime, where criminals like this have shaken hands with the people from the political and the administrative areas, and if I keep you under house arrest or on probation, you will fill your establishments with individuals from the political and administrative areas, and if you are smart, cunning enough to wiretap them during sexual intercourse and perversion, when you are cornered by law enforcement, you turn to them and tell them: the police caught me, there’s nothing I can do, I’m being investigated by one Butoi, from the Capital, you can’t get away from him. What do we do? There’s not much margin? Well, there should be because I have your pictures, I have recordings with you. At that point, there is a collegial intervention – take a closer look, I don’t think it’s that serious, they’re young people too – in the most benign way, but in these cabals, as we saw in so many cases, when the activity in the files and so on is uncovered, it’s all about money. Why do we have to hide eye-popping facts.

Do you think they have paid for their silence, so far?

It’s not impossible. And not only him – but the entire organized crime network also manages to achieve its peace through services and counter-services. There are people to clarify these things, but we, as investigators, and those of us who have done this job and worn the uniform, we cannot be fooled. We expect the results to be clear, concrete, and proven. Evidence means to give the judge an unshakable algorithm, which will form the judge’s intimate conviction. I give this one 30 years or as long as I decide to give him, I look in the law, as again, there are now some new criminal policies set in motion, some signs have appeared. So, what are the punishments for these acts in our country and what are the punishments for these acts in other partner countries? Law and punishment, in their austerity, also have a preventive, protective value. How many years did the judge give him for rape? 17 years? I don’t touch that anymore. This tolerance of law enforcement, which does not realize its preventive, protective effects, is, at the present time, blatant. Why? Well, I didn’t have rape with death? Then I gave him 17 years, but he stayed in prison only 9. He got out, and what do you think he did? Rape with death. Well, then who’s to blame? The one who gave him just that much and there’s a lot to discuss here. Didn’t we once discuss the need to set up preventive-protective campuses, for the taking into custody of the dangerous sick people who committed such acts – rapes, murders, etc., which society is terrified of – and incarcerating them for life? Don’t you realize that they are unpredictable? Their minds – woe to them! – are dark, twisted, it’s in their nature. We’re talking about the mentally ill, this time about the dangerous, murdering, raping, robbing ones. You cannot turn on a TV without bumping into some breaking news. Here’s what happened, here’s that girl, 14 years old, stabbed to death 21 times, when she was going to carol, poor girl. Well, for this feat, what shall we do? Are we gonna see this one free, too? No, these guys don’t have to get out (of prison). Why? Well as long as I have you in my custody, I cut your hair, I wash you, I take care of you, I feed you, you have social and medical care, psychological care – that is you’re in my care, you are my responsibility, as a state, I just forbid you from being able to go and be a danger to another or a danger to yourself.

Professor, if we had such a case as the Tate brothers before 1989, what would have happened to them?

They too would have been proven guilty. There would have been no question of them being investigated while at liberty and these naiveties with house arrest, they would have been put into jail too, the interrogations, the evidence and all the rest would have piled up, so that the case would have become a source of learning. Well, you don’t play with Dan Antonescu, you don’t play with Butoi, you don’t play with Andrei, you don’t play with Lucică Guran, you don’t play with Manon Florescu, with Aurică Bolboacă and other police legends in interrogations of the kind. But wait a minute, they will have a hard life, because in this preventive detention they will live together volens-nolens, we have nothing to give them but criminals who have wives, who have daughters and who have sisters. Well then, the latter too will have a corrective effect on the Tate brothers.

However, they were visited by a representative of the United States Embassy in Bucharest, to remind them that they have the right to legal assistance – just as, as British citizens, they also have the right to consular assistance from Great Britain. Don’t you think they rely heavily on this immunity, so to say, in quotation marks, that citizenship or dual citizenship confers them?

This whole story is either part of a defense strategy, which no one can deny these unfortunate young people, on the one hand, and no ambassador of any embassy on this earth, or all the embassies together, will be able to neutralize or delete the victim claim of one of these girls – on the other hand. So, you can come, Mr. Ambassador, with great love and pleasure, to remind our policemen that they must respect one rule and the other, but you do it in vain, because the policemen know. You will not under any circumstances be able to overturn evidence – but, in fact, I don’t think His Excellency even has such a matter in mind, to overturn evidence. I think it was a collegial, bilateral contact about the citizen, as an American, being a victim. For now, we are moving into an outline, that is the situation that I am in and the urge to reflect – hence acknowledgement of the facts, contributing to the repair of the damage caused as much as possible and regretting these facts. They are young boys, in the imagination of a naïve individual they can recover, rehabilitate, etc.

“A psychopath of this nature is irreversible”

Do you see them as guys capable of rehabilitation?

Never, because they are psychopathic constructs. I was talking, in our lessons, about my great teachers – and they were saying: Well, what do you want to do with them, make them the way they never used to live?  They do not know this reality and they do not know it morpho-physiologically and structurally. You want to have them wear a different shoe, possibly, but you forget that you want them to wear a shoe that’s size 38 while they’re wearing a 44. So, they were never in those 38 shoes, you can’t fit them in there. Otherwise, my opinions, after a life as a psychologist, criminalist, are formed. Psychopaths of this nature are irreversible in their upbringing and to me the facts speak for themselves. Last year alone we had a couple of murderers who committed rape and double murders – – who were let off the hook by our legislature in its utopian naivety – and not a year went by when they killed and raped again. Well, here we are looking for the causal link. If they were in prison, would they have raped and kill again? Not. Well then? You, who facilitated these facts, this society, you are responsible.

Professor, as a final question, I would like to ask you: do you think that the two Tate brothers will end up in court? I mean, will they be sent to court, or could they be released and disappear from Romania? Because they have their money outside, that’s quite clear.

I am convinced that they will enjoy a thorough and professional prosecution – that means DIICOT, Public Prosecutor’s Office – which will be able to provide the courts with the algorithms of a thorough, unquestionable indictment that will leave no room for oscillating discussions in the judge’s mind. The moment you get into one of these things and you get a film that you start shooting, you can’t play the film anymore. There you go, things start to clear up – what’s with that one, how’s with that other one, explainations, searches, confrontations, etc. You see, this case has a social resonance. Not only we are interested and can discuss, but all the intelligent people in this country, and especially the responsible people, realize that, beyond the show, we are witnessing a sad towards pathetic play.

“Stop chasing the chimera!”

A short message for girls who end up being victims of individuals like Tate.

Maybe a message not to get there. First, they need to be confident in what they want to do with their lives outside of these things. One of them: achieve financial independence, girls. What does this means? To have a job, to have something to cling to. You go to work, you take a broom, you wash a glass in a restaurant, bar, pub, you go to a multinational, you have language skills, you work all on a computer. Go, do interviews at multinationals, at all these structures where the money is really good – in IT, in all these fields. Stop chasing the chimera! – This is a chimera, it is a matter that is presented to you. The loverboy method – how can you be so stupid as to believe in promises of marriage, promises of paradise, to believe in those little cars, toy cars almost, that are out there that he offers you, when you see other pretenders swarming around him. Don’t you catch it at first that there is a trick here? But especially after the loverboy phase wears off, when the promise and suggestion of sex for money comes up, where is your mind? Because it doesn’t end with this game, he takes you to another bed, another relationship. Then, girls, be careful: there is no video chat or pure prostitution activity, crystal clear. You will see how slowly, step by step, you slide into drug dealing, slide into gambling, slide into betting. And in the blink of an eye, you end up in jail, girls!  They remain with their wasted lives, and when you remain with a wasted life too, you feel the need – like the pretty woman you are – to have a drink – a fine one, just like that, because your entourage taught you so. Few are the circumstances in which you drink without taking a shot. And from drinking, from sniffing and from continuing, this time on your own, the learned activity of prostitution and so on you go straight into the consumable and get wasted. You fill the boulevards, where you are at the hand of X, of Y, you have no financial independence, you have no roof above your head, you have no man to be attached to -attachment, love, tenderness – with whom to procreate, to make a family, because I understood that we have a democracy that is suffering. Believe in God, girls. Keep God in your heart. He will inspire you and get you out of troubles.

Thank you very much, Professor. Let’s hear from you!

I felt good!

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Autor

Adina Anghelescu

Cunoscut jurnalist de investigatii, generatia presei anilor '90, prin condeiul căreia au trecut toate marile scandaluri ale ultimilor 30 de ani. Licențiat în Drept, specializat în nișa subiectelor ... vezi toate articolele